Around our house we’ve lately been talking about souls. Great breakfast table conversation. Is the soul inside or outside of the body? When some theologians, me for instance, talk about embodied souls, what the heck are they talking about? Where did the idea of an eternal soul come from? What is a soul anyway?
An eternal soul that is ours by right of being human is very popular and commonly held, but it’s a very Greek idea that doesn’t have much credibility in Hebrew scripture. That seems to come as a surprise to most Christians. On the other hand, Hebrew scripture does reflect something of our nature that continues on after death, even if it is in cold storage in Sheol. Consider, for instance, the story of King Saul summoning up the spirit of Samuel to advise him on the upcoming battle. Nevertheless, some kind of spiritual cold storage does not seem to me to be the same thing as life after death. Life requires living in all the meanings that living can have. The Pharisees of Jesus’ day were firmly convinced of a resurrection life in which all the promises of God would be fulfilled. The gift of that life eternal, whatever eternal might mean, seems to be exactly that, a gift given by God and not something that is inherent in human being. As Christians we believe that by grace through faith we are recipients of that gift, but I think we get into a lot of trouble when we start telling God what the rules are that govern how and to whom God can grant it. As far as I know, God has never asked for our opinion on that.
Our continued life, in the fullness of all that life can be, after our bodies have died suggests that the soul bears our self into new territory. Whatever our soul is, it seems to me that it must encompass all that we would call the self. I’m not entirely sure what that means, but as a man growing into his senior years, I do know that the self I identify as me is not an old man, in spite of what my body displays in the mirror. That self is not merely the exchange of electrical impulses coursing across the synapses of my brain, nor is it only the image and capabilities of my body. It is more than that, and it continues to grow and change embracing the wholeness of my life.
I believe that both the Incarnation and the Resurrection symbolize the embodiment of soul. Materiality is a part of the soul’s wholeness. The body is not a temporary and decaying soul container from which we will emerge as freed spirits after death. Something there is about soul that includes materiality.
That raises a really good question. What will our resurrection body be like? The Corinthians wanted to know and Paul famously answered by calling the questioner a fool. He went on to say, in essence, that he really had no idea, but whatever it is, it will be quite different from the one we now have. I think we get a clue about the answer not from the Resurrection, but from the Transformation. In that scene, the disciples recognized both Elijah and Moses without difficulty, and that’s the clue. Whatever our resurrection body is, it will embody our souls so that our self will be instantly recognizable by anyone who ever knew us at any time in our lives, regardless of age or condition.
So do we get these marvelous new bodies immediately after death or do we have to wait around for the General Resurrection? N.T. Wright takes a third track and seems to think that we will spend a lot of time in heaven as disembodied souls waiting for the new earth of Revelation before we again become embodied. Given what physicists have told us about the notorious instability of time itself, I’m not sure the question even makes sense. In God’s presence perhaps all these things happen at the same time. Since our earthly lives are predictably short, what difference does it make?
I for one have taken the view that none of this matters anymore. The teacher told me heaven is now, God IS WITH us, here, now. What more do I need? What more should concern me? Indeed this is a difficult position to maintain, and I fall often, sinking below the waves of worry and strife, but the teachers words reach out to me and I find some footing that keeps my head above the waters.PeaceBruno
BrunoOn one hand I agree with you that God is with us, here, now. On the other, the question of soul is one of those intriguing mysteries that keeps coming up, has no real answer, and cannot be ignored. It's such an important question for some people that it haunts their minds and creates a tremendous amount of anxiety, especially when it gets mixed in with questions about sin and judgment inspired by fundamentalism.CP
looking forward to having similar \”breakfast conversations\” in the coming days. as one who has a website titled \”diamonds in the soul\” and practices \”soul collage\” and \”soul care supervision\”, i decided i should probably wade in here. great questions and ponderings you pose. i also really like bruno's response and yours back to him. not sure i have much else to add. for me this is the line that jumped out and speaks of \”soul\” to me: \”…it continues to grow and change embracing the wholeness of life.\” i also believe it is that place (in this body or another) that is \”instantly recognizable\” as the truth, wholeness, fullness of our uniquely created essence.thanks for helping me clarify this a little further for myself :-)xoxo
btw – i believe conversations of soul IS LIFE!!! xoxoxoit's much more interesting than the weather – most of the time 🙂
I swear I did not read you post before commenting on lucy's, but I believe we agree on many points. I think that mixing time and eternity is a nonstarter. I remember learning that our \”naked\” souls would live on in God until such time as they are reunited with some resurrection bodily entity. That kind of confused me. However, accepting that we don't know zilch about the Eternal Now in God, I am willing to believe in a resurrection that surprises us in its Divine creativity.
Barbara,Thanks for visiting. I'm delighted to have one of Lucy's regulars look in and hope that you will do so often.CP
You know, in my family we always had a rule that conversation at breakfast was to be discouraged… But then I for one am very grumpy in the mornings.That said, what an interesting discussion. I'm going to have to do some more thinking about this because from what I understand you to be saying, you believe in a literal physical resurrection of some sort, which I've completely discounted for more years than I can remember. So mine is more the incorporeal view of soul – the \”temporary and decaying container\”.However, one way of looking at the Christian belief in resurrection might be (she tiptoes carefully into deep water) the theory of reincarnation that forms a central core of so many other schools of spiritual thinking. It does seem to me unlikely that we can learn all the lessons we need to in this one short life.But all in all I tend to agree with Bruno's first sentence: that none of it matters.Thanks for a good discussion, although it would have been too much for me pre-caffeine!